- [Sam Jasmine] Tonight, we are also listening to the Twin Cities Metropolitan Regional Arts Council. They are holding public conversation with four Twin Cities artists with disabilities. They will explore how people with disabilities are making, sharing, and experiencing the arts and what needs to happen next to fully include disability communities in the region's cultural fabric. Tonight, we are joining facilitator Scott Artley. Scott is the accessibility program director for the MRAC and will be facilitating this forum. Good evening, Scott.

- Hi, Sam, thank you so much. I will just launch into our conversation. I'm so thrilled. My name is Scott Artley. I use he/him pronouns and also they/them pronouns. [As Sam Said], I'm the accessibility program director at the Metropolitan Regional Arts Council, which is also known as MRAC. I'm really grateful to be partnering with you, Sam, with Disability & Progress and KFAI tonight to bring this event to a wider audience. It's a very exciting partnership. We thought it would just be on Zoom actually, so it's great to know that Sam's open to connecting and bringing in her community of listeners to this conversation, so thank you. For those of you who are on the Zoom, there's an option to turn on closed captions at the bottom of your screen. So you can use that CC button and show captions. You can also view the full transcript. If you prefer to see captions in a separate browser window, you can use the StreamText link that Sam is going to be putting into the chat now. Sam from MRAC, I should say. So, I'll just introduce for a moment MRAC, the Metropolitan Regional Arts Council. MRAC improves arts access for communities in a seven-county metro area through support to artists and organizations. As the accessibility program director, I assist with creating and running funding programs and ensuring that MRAC's activities are accessible to and serving people with disabilities, and I also develop resources and partnerships to expand the participation of people with disabilities in the arts. I will say, I'm also a disabled artist myself. I will give a quick verbal description of myself. I am a white man in my mid-30s with an orange beard. I'm wearing blue squarish glasses and a dark gray knit hat and my favorite light blue sweatshirt. Behind me is my home office. And not that it's a visual description, but if we were in a room together, you could probably smell the garlic from the pizza that I had for lunch this afternoon. Full sensory experience. I'm really thrilled to bring together these four artists that I admire for a conversation about a topic that all of us are so passionate about. There are so many artists with disabilities I could have chosen from. I'm sure a lot of them are on this Zoom meeting right now. But, I selected four for our first, maybe there'll be more, our first conversation that had some recent interactions with the Metropolitan Regional Arts Council. So I would love to introduce our first guest, our featured speaker, who is Nicole M. Smith. Nicole is a radical healing artist and organizer who has experience and expertise in using artistic methods to address trauma, difficult experiences, and injustice to unravel dynamics of disempowerment, oppression, and systemic methods of control. Her work has been experienced internationally, and in fall of 2016, Nicole was honored to have been invited to the White House, under Obama's administration, for her work in the bisexual/queer community. Nicole's participation with MRAC recently has been as a participant in focus groups that MRAC held about arts and disability in 2019 and as an applicant in a couple of MRAC's grant programs for individual artists. So, I'm going to be introducing each of our participants like this, and I'll have them kick off with a brief verbal description of themselves and then answer a question that I'm going to pose to everyone. So here's this first question. So Nicole, in a moment, I'll have you introduce yourself with your verbal description and answer this question: How does access and disability show up in your artistic work?

- [Nicole Smith] Thank you, Scott. Hello, everyone. I am so pleased to be here. I am honored that Scott and MRAC have asked me to be at this place at the table. My name, as Scott said, is Nicole M. Smith. I am a Black woman. I have a double nose piercing, hoop nose piercing, on the left side of my nostril. I have dreadlocks that are my natural hair color, so black, that are cascading right now a little bit past my shoulder. I have almost a full sleeve tattoo on my right arm, and then some on my clavicle, some on my left arm. I am wearing a cream-colored hoodie and some green leggings and quite cozy as I sip my tea and have my space heater placed next to my maybe chartreuse, blue couch. Yeah, that's me. So, Scott, can you repeat the question one more time please?

- Sure. How does access and disability show up in your artistic work?

- [Nicole] Yeah, you know, I mean, first and foremost, my work as an artist, as a facilitator, being presented in front of an audience is how it shows up. I embody being a person with disabilities. And quite often, I am told that, because I was born a sighted person and lived the majority of my life as a sighted person, I was told that I don't quote-unquote "look like someone who has sight impairment." So sometimes, often, initially as a facilitator, I don't disclose that I'm a person with disabilities until much later, because what I want to do is demystify this stigmatization, what a people with disabilities appears as, how we are a spectrum, and who we are, who we be. So, that in and of itself appears in that way, of me walking through the world, being through the world, being myself through the world. And I acknowledge that I just used ableist language by saying walking, so I apologize, and I'll say "be in the world." The other aspect is becoming a sight-impaired person in 2015, beginning that journey, I've really advocated for equity, especially with disability justice and encouraging to discern from adaptability, the discernment between adaptability and accessibility. So really just the injustices that occur with disability rights, and I say, it's not me or my community that there's an issue with. It's society as a whole that's very ableist and things of that nature. So my art and my life and my identities are very intertwined. So the art of being a person with disabilities is how I show up.

- I love that, the art of being a person with disabilities. Already, I'm already ready to make a bumper sticker about that. All right, next I'm going to introduce Minda Mae. Minda Mae hails from Minneapolis, the first wheelchair-using burlesque performer in Minnesota, a fierce advocate for persons with disabilities. She works tirelessly to spread awareness and champions for change at every opportunity. She is the producer of The DisabiliTease Festival and the founder of the The DisabiliTease Academy, both exclusively for burlesque, circus, and drag performers with disabilities. Recent participation with MRAC, Minda has been a participant in MRAC's arts and disability focus groups, just like Nicole Smith, and her organization DisabiliTease has been awarded MRAC grants in MRAC's Arts Project Support, Flexible Support, and Equity Response grant programs. So Minda, if you could, a brief verbal description of yourself, and then tell us, how does access and disability show up in your work?

- Hi, sure. My name is Minda Mae. I use she/her pronouns. I'm a white woman with a bob-length auburn wig, and I'm wearing a teal and purple sequined dress, a necklace, and glasses with blue frames. I am sitting in my living room in front of a cream-colored wall. I am often the first burlesque dancer people see in a wheelchair. Just being present in a space with people that are either able-bodied or have invisible disabilities can change folks' preconceived notion of what a disabled person is and hopefully take that into their world and daily life. A lot of people assume a lot of things about disabled folks, and we like proving them wrong. You know, dancing sitting isn't much different than dancing standing. You still convey with movement. You just do it with your upper body. So, for an example, instead of doing a different walk on stage, I can actually move my wheels differently. And I also have the advantage of being able to spin on stage really fast with my power chair. Most people don't get that chance. So, instead of using the chair just as a prop, I can use it as an extension of my body or even as a partner. My chair, it's not being able to perform in a venue because it isn't accessible. And as Scott mentioned, I am the producer of The DisabiliTease Festival, which is the only festival of its kind for burlesque, drag, and circus artists with visible and invisible disabilities, and the DisabiliTease Academy, which is an online school geared towards performers, producers, and teachers that have or want to work with folks with disabilities. I'm not the only person on the team for both of these. Both organizations are run by and for people with disabilities. There are two other folks on these teams, and we make sure that when working with instructors and performers, that we make it as accessible and impactful as we can. We find it's already really great for people to see someone like them either on stage or teaching a class, because representation is important. Having more opportunities to showcase our talents is really important, and COVID did us a favor with making things virtual so we can bring our shows and classes into the homes of folks, regardless of where they live. This is also helpful for having the option captioning or flexibility in filming style. If it's recorded, people can watch it when their timezone or bodies allow. Yeah, to kind of have representation of difference on stages and in classes has been really important, because I didn't know there was such a wide community, both locally and internationally, of disabled performers and just being able to give them a space to perform or teach or learn has I think really opened up my eyes to how many of us there are and gives a really big unity as well.

- Excellent, thank you. Yes, representation, so important. I'm sure we'll come back to that. I'll introduce Nicole Noblet. Nicole says, "Hi all. "My name is Nicole Noblet. "I grew up loving everything art-related, "especially living in Kansas City, Missouri. "I gained the skills and knowledge about artistic practice "and am an avid researcher, "so I know how to find opportunities to show my art. "What I want more than anything "is for people to see my art and ask me why I create it." Recently, Nicole served on the Flexible Support grant review panel [video skips] last spring, the organization Cow Tipping Press. So Nicole, if you could give us a brief verbal description and then tell us, how does access and disability show up? [Video Skips]

- [Nicole using a speech-generating device:]

- Hello, my name is Nicole Noblet. I'm a light-skinned woman with orange lenses in my glasses. I have shoulder-length brown hair, and I'm wearing a floral and green striped top. My two guinea pigs are behind me in their cage, and you might see three cats running in the background. Disability and access show up in my written work. Because I have chronic illnesses and am autistic, I frequently meet doctors who are impatient with me, and because the cause of my illnesses haven't been identified yet, I am often told it's all in my head and referred to a psychologist, which does me no good and infuriates me. My visual work is created using bright colors.

- [Scott:] I share your interest in bright colors, I will say, in my own visual work, and in my regular life. I'll introduce Teighlor McGee. Teighlor McGee is a Black disabled writer, poet, performing artist, and disability advocate living in Saint Paul, Minnesota. They have performed in 20% Theatre Company Twin Cities' production Controlled Burn, as well as the immersive outdoor performance Dumpster Fire and the 2009 production of Queertopia. They currently work as director of access and community engagement for Women for Political Change. Through their work, they explore race, gender, and disability through a poetic lens. Teighlor's been recent participation with MRAC, first as an in-depth interviewee for that research we did in 2019 about arts and disability, had a lovely conversation over coffee, and then recently was an applicant in the Arts Impact grant program and a grantee for the group Lightning Rod, which is a grantee of MRAC as well, where Teighlor served as both a performing artist collaborator, and [video skips] Access, which is the delightful name that they gave to their access advisory group. So Teighlor, could you give us a brief verbal description of yourself, and then tell us, how does access and disability show up in your? [video skips]

- Hi everyone, my name is Teighlor. My visual description, today I am wearing a fluffy pink sweatshirt with a bear on it, very cozy. I am wearing a pair of glasses. I'm a light-skinned Black person. I have an eyebrow piercing, nose piercings, and a septum piercing, and I have neon pink hair in the front and red in the rest, and my hair is pulled. That's what I look like today. For me, disability is inherently always a part of my art because my artistic practice is about centering Black autistic experiences and Black autistic bodies. In my performance art, and especially when I do movement art, I am very much centering this idea of having a body that is undesirable, a body that is broken, a body that is flawed in ways that other bodies aren't flawed. And as an artist, I want that to be the center, the message, that this is about my community and my culture and about centering these stories that frequently aren't being told. So often, we aren't seeing narratives in our art about Black disabled bodies, and through my work in particular, there is no separation of Blackness and disability, because that is the entire encompassing of who I am. So for me, that's very important when talking about my artistic practice, is that disability and race cannot be separated from me, because when you look at me, you get to experience both of those things at the same time.

- Thank you, Teighlor. I'm sure we'll talk again more about that too, but thank you for bringing your full self, including more bright colors. Let that be a theme for today. Well, I prepared ahead of time, but I would love to hear our panelists talk. So let's start first with a question that I will pose to Nicole Noblet. So this first question is, what do you think the arts have to offer people with disabilities, and what do you think people with disabilities have to offer the arts?

- Art is something anyone can do. There are endless ways to create art. Many tools can be adapted to make them accessible for people with all kinds of abilities. I create things that are not thought of as traditional art or as not being as good. We need to start thinking of art made by people with disabilities as being on the same level as art made by non-disabled peers. Anyone can be an artist. Art is something I am good at. It is something that makes me feel good. I'm proud of what I create, and that is something no one can take away from me or make me feel less than. People with disabilities have a lot to offer the arts. We provide a unique perspective. We see the world through a different lens.

- Yeah, agreed. Well yes. [video skips]

- [Nicole Smith] Yeah, this is Nicole M. Smith. I really appreciate what was just put in the space and that aspect of normalization, what is thought to be a person with disabilities and having the arts be an access point. I feel like the arts definitely provides a way that is encompassing in the ways that it is, that is, in and of itself, whereas some other sectors or other, yeah, I'll just say sectors out there aren't. There is a level of forgiving, which Nicole just touched upon. And that, to me, is a way to seed in a change mentally of certain levels of supremacy, including ableism, that we, through the art, allowing us to bear witness and engagement in ways that might not otherwise occur. Simply by being in the audience, from burlesque to scenes to painting to poetry, theater, fill in the blank, that is an absorption that may not otherwise occur beyond the arts sector.

- So I think I'm hearing you say that the arts sector is uniquely welcoming, in a way? Is that what you're saying?

- [Nicole Smith] Yeah, it's uniquely welcoming, and I think that, as Nicole mentioned, is that anyone can be an artist, you know? Before I was a part of the disability community, went ahead and shadowed Upstream Arts and was just astonished how the arts could be with folks of a variety of ability. And I witnessed how even the level of engagement for someone with a DCD, developmentally cognitive disorder, and this person to perform, and they were able to perform in the arts by blinking their eye. That was celebrated, you know? That way in which the arts can be inviting and can be a gateway to engagement, whereas some other sectors, there's a lot of barriers.

- I think that's a great point. And it might actually feed into my next question which I have for Teighlor, which is, how do the other identities you hold impact your experience as a disabled person or a disabled artist, and specifically in the arts?

- I believe that my other identities really tie into my, [video skips] for me, I am an Afro-indigenous, gay, fat artist, and that shows up in the ways that I show up as an artist and in the spaces that I occupy. But with that as well, there's also an element, you know, I am light-skinned as well, and so for me, I always have to recognize that I am a Black disabled artist, but my experiences [video skips] experiences of disability and Blackness. And so while I work really hard to be a prominent voice doing the type of work and making this type of art, I also am always trying to be aware of knowing when to pass the mic and knowing when to elevate and honor other Black disabled artists as well, many folks who might be of different experiences of mine, et cetera, and making sure that those folks are being centered and heard. I'm never going to be the most marginalized person room, even if I am a Black disabled artist, and that is the globalization of anti-Blackness. It is everywhere in these spaces. So I cannot divorce Blackness and disability from one another, but at the same time, I have to recognize the nuances that come with that and be active in the ways that I show up and in the ways that I create. A lot of my work is solo work because I am shy. Mainly that's why. But in the future, I would love to do more collab. Some things in the works hopefully, so I think that thinking about these things and having some conversations to bring them to light for allies so they're also thinking about these things are really important. I hope that answers the question.

- Oh, it totally does. Yes, again, always hit with your brilliance. [video Skips] Do these identities you hold impact your experience as a disabled artist?

- [Nicole Smith] I do, but I will hold back. This is Nicole, if someone else wants to go.

- Well, let's actually, for that, this event is so fast. It's only an hour. I could really spend hours doing this, but we wanted to have something that felt accessible. [video skips] A question, which is, I'm going to pose to Minda. So how can arts organizations be better allies to people with disabilities?

- Yeah, I mean, the first thing is, talk to people with disabilities. Reach out to disability communities and get feedback on how to make your social media and advertising and websites more accessible. Disability isn't just people in wheelchairs. There may be a need for an interpreter or captions, even audio descriptions or image descriptions in recordings for virtual events. Even if me and three other people have the same disability diagnosis, it doesn't mean that it's going to show up the same in all of us. [Video Skips] And honestly, organizations need to add community members with disabilities to decision making positions. Not only can they give insight on some easy changes to make their programming more accessible, but then people will see them and feel more welcome, because they know that their needs are being considered. A big thing that I've learned about recently that I've really enjoyed are accessibility statements. So it would be on a Facebook page or even a website that kind of say, what are your accessibility features, but don't say anything like, "Unfortunately, our event access requirements are," if you're cutting people off without giving them the choice. Then also have a person people can contact if they have a need to go hunt somebody down and it'll take more effort than it should. I think when you're a better ally to folks with disabilities in your work, you create spaces, whether virtual, for everyone, disabled or not, to engage more fully. If that means going outside of your organization to get help to do this, it's always worth putting time and resources to make things more accessible. A good example is, I'm sure you've all seen the picture of somebody's shoveling steps, and then they ask, "Well, can you do the ramp? "'Cause if you do the ramp, everybody can go up, "where if you just do the steps, those people can go, "but then [other people] they have to wait." So by making things more accessible for people with disabilities, you're making it more accessible to everyone. And there are infinite different potential access needs. So taking an accessible stand continually and listening to and hiring disabled people and welcoming new requests. [video skips] It's not just a one thing, and it's done and accessible for everybody.

- Those are great, excellent. [Scott's audio freezes] That's how you really become an ally. You let your organization become that. So I want to let anybody else answer on how arts organizations might be better allies to people with disabilities, and I will say, Nicole, if the thing you were going to say earlier is still burning, I really want to encourage you to also, Nicole Smith, if that burning thing's still in your mind, I would love to hear about it as well.

- [Nicole Smith] It's not necessarily burning, and I know we're on a time crunch. So thank you, Scott, for the opportunity, but I will relinquish that.

- That's so generous. Does anybody have other thoughts about how arts organizations can be better allies to people with disabilities? Nicole Smith, if you could, so here's another question that I have for you, and again, it might integrate with some thoughts you were having. If money, time, energy, et cetera were not considerations, dream your biggest dreams. What would a [video skips]

- [Nicole Smith] Okay, Scott, the last part of your question cut out, after "what would."

- What would a radically accessible arts environment be like for you?

- [Nicole Smith] First of all, as a Black woman, I would be able to come into a space. No, you know, I'm on Minnesota Access Alliance board, and I just remember when Jenea worked at the Ordway. Jenea's now at the State Arts Board. But said, I remember hearing this, and I was like, yes, that someone with a variety, a person with disabilities, no matter what their needs, can come into the Ordway, I'll just say in this dream, a space, and not need to ask for anything. They can have the same experience that a fully abled person, a person without disabilities, could have. And that can mean, oh, it's true, and that's something that I think about, again, going back to the discernment between adaptability and accessibility. I've been in experiences where folks feel they're being accessible, and I'm saying, "That's being adaptable." If I'm in a sighted activity, and one of the facilitators comes up to me and reads what's on the board or reads, then you know that I'm having a very different experience than the rest of the room, correct? And as a facilitator and an art-maker, I keep that in consciousness when I'm doing an array of engagement. I also do the art of, and at Soul Friday, which is a dance party that I co-organize with Sally Nixon, we think about our patrons. We think about compromised immune systems, which is why we have not had a party since January 2020. We also think about persons that may want to engage with the dance party, but there is a special need around mobility. So creating these access points that allow folks that maybe didn't think that they could attend an event because they felt that it wasn't set up in a way that would allow them access, to be like, "No, we got you." And so, that to me is a dream of me walking the world in the intersection of identities as a queer disabled Black woman of saying, "You know, I feel got, "without having to ask to be got." Yeah, to be able to go into a theater, to be able to go into, there are institutions in the Twin Cities and beyond that, when asked, they are either able to provide, or, there's a very famous art museum in Los Angeles, I'm not going to say the name, and I remember, I asked about assisted listening devices. And they were like, "Oh, we just got rid of 'em. "No one was using them." And I said, "Well, did people know "that they were available to have?" And then I asked, "Who's the director of community engagement?" And so, oftentimes, when I ask about accessibility, the retort is, "Oh, I never thought about that. "Huh, no one's ever asked about that! "Oh!" And I say, "You know, I know I'm the first, "but I hope to be the last," that these initiatives and policies occur so that it is just universally accessible, no matter what the need is.

- I love that, Nicole. I mean, oh, sorry, I keep getting notifications my internet is unstable. I appreciate the idea of your radical wish is where the people got you, right, which is both a, "I understand you, and I'm meeting your needs," right? I love that fusion. I would love to kick things over to my colleague Sam Stahlmann. We as part of the registration for this event asked folks to send us their questions that they have for you panelists. So we've already heard some really amazing things. We're getting shout-outs left and right in the chat. So please keep that coming as well, and I will hand it over to Sam to facilitate some questions from the audience.

- Thanks, Scott. My internet is also being choppy, so I apologize. If I cut in and out, please let me know. My name is Sam Stahlmann. I use she/her pronouns, and I am the panel and events manager at MRAC. I am a white woman in my late 20s with curly brown short hair. I'm wearing a striped top with a floral collar, and I'm sitting in my home office. My first question is going to be to Nicole N., and the question's from a panelist, quote, "I have several disabling health issues "that cause me to fatigue easily. "If any of the panelists have this challenge, "how do they manage?", unquote.

- [Nicole N:] I have several chronic illnesses that cause chronic pain and fatigue, and I am frequently sick due to autoimmune disease. There are a lot of days when I can't get out of bed because I am in too much pain or am sick. So when I am able to do something other than sleep, I keep my knitting next to my bed so that on these days, I can still do something to make me feel like I am being productive, but it won't make me feel worse. On the days I am feeling well enough to get out of bed, I make sure to take frequent breaks, and I keep a huge water bottle with me, because I get dehydrated easily. I know if I do something too long, I will not be able to do anything the next day. I don't push myself too hard. If I work on my art for 10 minutes and need to rest the rest of the day, that is what I need to do for my health. I also plan rest days where I stay in bed and watch Disney movies and eat all day.

- Thanks, Nicole, that's amazing. I want to open this up to the other panelists too, if you all want to respond to that question.

- I really appreciate what Nicole said about pacing yourself. I think that's really important in dance as well, that we may not be able to run a rehearsal 40 times before going on stage, and if you're injured, you may have to pull out of a show. Somebody told me that it's not a flex to perform disabled, and that's ableist of myself to think that I should push through. So I think giving yourself grace and just doing what you can and being okay with what you're doing being good enough is really important.

- [Nicole Smith] Thank you for that. This is Nicole Smith. Hosting, so, you know, I try to push through. I got the booster a couple weeks ago, and it really created a different impact than the first two shots. I was going to push through and have this meeting, and the person said, "No, health is wealth. "You're just over three months post-kidney transplant," and things of that nature. So, I had to really learn to pace and pause. So I would say, me, I'm a Type 2 diabetic. Next year it's going to be 20 years since I was diagnosed. As a result of diabetes, I have become sight-impaired, partially sighted individual, and I had kidney disease, kidney failure. And there were times I would do 12 hours of home dialysis and then go facilitate or perform. I would be cramping, and I knew I was pushing my body. So I would say, even post-transplant, I took the summer off and allowed myself to recover. I'm still recovering. So really, I think as best as you can, really holding yourself in a gentle way on those days where the pain is immense and not pushing through and taking the time for self-care.

- Thanks for adding that, Nicole. This next one, I'm going to ask Teighlor. "Who defines artist with disabilities? "Does it include age-related, cognitive, "physical, other indicators?" Tell us what you think, Teighlor.

- So, I genuinely believe most people are disabled, and a lot of folks just aren't in a place where they realize that yet. I think a big reveal of that was when you look at the outline of the Affordable Care Act, of which conditions are included within that. It kind of shows you, oh, actually, these conditions such as, for some people, like diabetes and asthma and things like that are disabilities. And that being said, not everyone is necessarily ready to accept that they are disabled, so that requires being really patient with folks. But I invite people to self-identify as disabled, depending on whether it be a cognitive disability, whether it be a physical disability, whether it be a mental illness. Those things are disabilities as well. If someone who only has depression wants to be like, "I'm disabled," that's okay. You're allowed to do that, you know? I think so often, folks don't realize the wide scope through which you can identify as disabled. But through my work in particular, I try to bring folks to the light in that regard in order to have that level of education and awareness. So I hope that answers the question.

- Absolutely, thank you, Teighlor. Does anyone else on the panel want to add onto that one?

- Teighlor was mentioning kind of not judging people, and if they feel disabled, they are. We find that very important in our work. We never ask people what their disability is unless they want to disclose it, and we never gatekeep on if somebody's like, "disabled enough." We've had people say they didn't apply because they didn't feel "disabled enough." My response is always, if you feel like you want to apply, then you should, because there are different levels of disabilities, and people need to see different levels of disability represented.

- Thanks for that, Minda. I'm going to send another question back to you from the audience. It is, "If you had one wish for how the metro arts community "could be more accessible, what would that wish be?"

- Unmuting is always very helpful. I mean, for me personally, the big thing is wheelchair-accessible venues, because, especially for those that are more intimate in size and more accessible monetarily to rent. You know, this includes parking entry, seating, bathrooms, dressing room, backstage and the stage itself. A lot of places just don't check a lot of these boxes, or if they do, they're places people don't regularly go, so it's hard to get people to come to an event if it's out of their way or a place that not many people go to. I didn't realize how big of a problem that was until I started performing. And you know, as I mentioned earlier, I'd love to see more folks thinking about what truly makes their art or event accessible, for both the artist and the audience. Then put in the effort to make those things happen. No one disabled person can be the end-all of what accessibility means, and it's been wonderful to have a team of us that can add various lenses of our own disabilities and experiences to the work we do. It also is actually really helpful that we come from different backgrounds, both in our other identities and the work we do outside the festival, to think about how we work with ourselves and even our audience and what they may need. So talking to other folks about their experience with disability and what access needs they may require is helpful. You know, we need to acknowledge that something that may work for one person may not work for another and could even create a barrier. So having a team creates a more well-rounded experience. We're teaching and learning from each other all the time. So we hope to be more and more accessible each year, and I think that's a big thing as well, realizing that you can't be 100% accessible to 100% of people 100% of the time and being okay with that, but being able to learn and add on as time goes on. A lot of performers and artists with disabilities will deal with inaccessible events just because they want to be a part of it, and some people just can't participate at all. So trying to include as many people as possible will really give a well-rounded idea on different things that happen. And honestly, the grant and resources that MRAC have provided have really helped my organizations be more accessible and welcoming to disability communities, and I hope other people take advantage of that support as well, whether it be watching panels, applying for grants, or even just looking at the accessibility resources on the website.

- I love that you brought up conflicting access needs, because I think that's something that we really needed to hit on tonight, but we just hadn't gotten there yet. Because very much this idea of conflicting access needs is so important to name and to discuss and to honor, because at the end of the day, there is going to be disabled folks who have different needs than other disabled folks. I think a good one can be like, some autistic people are scent sensitive, and other folks might rely on a certain scent to keep themselves calm, things like that. There's so many different potential differing access needs, and we as artists need to be continually having these conversations so we can navigate them. So thank you for bringing that up.

- Nicole Smith, did you want to add onto that as well?

- [Nicole Smith] Yeah, thank you for the invitation. Teighlor, what you just mentioned, I was thinking about that. I literally had a vision of if someone, you know, did have a sensitivity to scents, but there was someone who may use an essential oil such as lavender or other calming aspects to ground and be able to be in a space and lower anxiety. I pictured someone opening up a vial or just a small essential oil and smelling it and being able to do what they need to do while someone else is able to do what they need to do. I was just thinking about the individualized engagement. That's something that, in consulting and having been employed at different arts organizations and really leading community engagement, realizing the individualized importance, or the importance of individualizing someone's experience and taking the time to do so. And really quickly, I just remember when I was at Intermedia Arts, and there was a group coming from Transition Plus. I went ahead and had a visit and talked to the classroom, and the teacher mentioned that there were some folks who used feeding tubes, so they had to eat at a certain time. I was like, "Oh, well, okay, what do you need?" I was like, "Do you need a space? "Do you need an office? "What do you need?" They're like, "Oh, even just a bathroom." And I said, "Okay." I said, "I'll just put an out of order or something, "like, these two bathrooms are reserved. "There's four bathrooms so the other two can be for peeing." And they were just so thankful that it was that easy. This was before I identified as a person with disabilities, but I think about that individualized approach, which I feel like healthcare needs to do as well, that's a whole other conversation, but there is not a one-size-fits-all approach to accessibility and things of that nature. So I really dig what was just said in this segment regarding that topic.

- I just want to add one more thing too. Our goal is to make things as accessible as possible to as many people as possible, but within our monetary, knowledge, and capability limitations, we realize that we don't have, even with grants, we don't have a never-ending budget. We may not have the time or spoons or even the knowledge. So being able to get volunteers or other supports to help us has been really helpful, but also knowing that this is a thing. We can't be completely accessible, but we're doing our best without our own limitations, because we don't want to then make ourselves sicker by pushing ourselves to help too many other people at the same time.

- Right, thank you. And this is the last question that we have time for, and Nicole Smith, I'll have you kick us off. The question is, "How do we better connect "with adults with disabilities cross-culturally?"

- [Nicole Smith] Yeah, thank you, Sam. You know, I think back to what Scott mentioned in terms of MRAC's focus group. I just remember going in and having an awareness of the different cultures, the different shades that were in the room, and the common link was us being persons with disabilities. This focus group was about the intersection of disability and the arts, and that's what I was thinking when I heard about this question, that something that was touched upon before too is, at the helm of whatever the event is or whatever the space is going to be, having a person with disabilities be involved in the level of either organizing, cohosting, something to the degree of that nature, and especially, I always say, the events in which it's wanting to have the audience, the person who should be at the helm or at least right there copiloting should be a person that identifies as such as well. So again, at my intersections of being a queer, disabled Black woman, I'm like, "Okay, my questions are, who's hosting this event?" If it's a Black/indigenous persons of culture event, I'm like, "Okay, who's organizing?" And honestly, if it's a group of white folks, I'm like, "Why are you all wanting to host this event, "and why are there none of the folks who identify "as the audience you're wanting to engage at the table?" And so, I think that in doing events, especially if folks are wanting to be allies, the first question I think is, why wanting to hold an event or a space and going through those five W's, but starting with that capital W, capital H, capital Y, and then engaging authentically with those that are seeking to engage, and also asking if folks from the community even want to be engaged, or how they want to be engaged, how we want to be engaged. But what I was going to say, back to MRAC's event with the focus group is that the common thread was, us all are mostly identifying as persons with disabilities. So that in and of itself as the overarching link I think can bring a lot of different folks from a lot of different cultures, and knowing that, I've often said to some organizations, "Get out of the way," because magic can happen when folks are in a room together. So I think, you know, be aware of the fact that we do live in the city we live in and the state we live in, which are predominantly white occupied spaces that are on stolen land and that have been built on the backs of Black people, persons of culture, even to this day with how undocumented or refugee folks are being treated, and coming in with a level of consciousness, but knowing that the magic can also happen by folks that have a common link being in space together too. And I think allowing folks to advocate.

- Finish that thought, Nicole, and then we're going to wrap things up.

- [Nicole Smith] I was just going to say, allowing folks to advocate accordingly.

- Thank you. All right, well, I want to thank our panelists, Nicole M. Smith, Minda Mae, Nicole Noblet, and Teighlor McGee. So amazing being with you folks. I want to thank Sam Stahlmann, my colleague, for her excellent work co-producing this event. Thanks for our ASL interpreter Andrea, our captioner Megan. Thank you again, Sam Jasmine, for letting this activity reach a broader audience through Disability and Progress and KFAI, and then thank you everyone who took the time to attend this event or listen to the recording eventually. I know that time is a really essential, important resource, and I appreciate you spending some of it with us tonight. If you enjoyed this conversation, ideas about future ones, please reach out to me, scott@mrac.org. We'll kick it back.